Видео свједочење: Богдан Петковић, преживјели јасеновачки логораш из 1944. године
Transkript intervjua na srpskom jeziku:
Ja sam Bogdan Petković, bivši jasenovacki logoraš. U logor Jasenovac došao sam kao zarobljeni partizan. U logor sam došao 5.10.1944.godine, a iz Jasenovca sam izasao 18.02.1945.godine. Deportiran sam na rad u Nemačku. U Jasenovcu sam proveo 135 dana! 135 dana!
Koliko ste godina imali tada?
Imao sam 21 godinu.
Koje su vam najjače uspomene iz tog vremena?
Ah, najjače uspomene… Prvo, sama predodžba o Jasenovcu. Kada sam došao u Jasenovac, ja sam bio čitao nešto o njemu i razgovarao sam sa dvojicom koji su preživeli Jaasenovac. Ali, ipak nisam verovao da je to tako. Smatrao sam da je to preterivanje. Medjutim, ubrzo sam se uverio u to da sam se prevario. Ja sam se prilikom zarobljavanja , prilikom davanja generalija, upisao da sam Hrvat rimokatolik, a u stvari sam Srbin i pravoslavac. I mogu reci da me jedino to spasilo. U Jasenovac sam došao u nemačkoj uniformi, italijanskim gojzericama i jugoslavenskom šinjelu. Ustaše su me smatrale domobranom, jer je bilo tada I domobrana u logoru, pa prosto da kazem da mi je i prijalo to ako su me zvali domobranom. Dva puta sam radi te uniforme dobio batine i onda me jedan logoras, Ban Janko, koji je nažalost ostao u Jasenovcu, upozorio da ću stalno dobijati batine radi te bluze. I onda je on tu vojničku nemačku vojnicku bluzu zamenio u krpari za jedan seljački kaput od nekog grubog sukna.
Sta je „krpara“?
To je mesto gde su se skupljala odeća i…onih koji su bili likvidirani.
Da li je bilo mnogo odeće?
Pa ne znamo, to je bio jedan magacin, pa se to transportiralo, to sam kasnije saznao, u Oroslavlje. U Oroslavlju je bila neka tekstilna fabrika.
Jeste li bili svedok tudjih patnji, patnji drugih ljudi?
Bio sam, bio sam svedok. Pazite, kada sam došao u Jasenovac, pre mog dolaska su se tu dogodila dva teška događaja. To je bilo 21.septembra 1944.godine, kada su vešani ustaški oficiri u Jasenovcu i kada je vešana grupa doktora Mile Boškovica. A 23.septembra je dosao transport iz Stare Gradiske. To je, u stvari, taj logor preseljen ovamo. Srbe su pobili, tamo u Gradišci. Ovamo su došli samo Hrvati. To je bio jedan krvavi marš, ne znam, oko 30 km dug. I o tom se logoru pričalo tu i tamo, na kašiku. Znate, nije brujao logor o tome. A, neposredno posle mog dolaska u logor bio je javni nastup. Tu sam prisustvovao javnom vješanju.
“Nastupi” su inače bili…?
To je kada se postroji ceo logor. To se zvao nastup. To su uvek bile nekakve egzekuciuje.I tada su nas postrojili ispred baraka, tu su bila vešala i vešali su trojicu zatočenika. Čitao je zastavnik Lisac tu presudu , ja nisam upamtio to jer sam samo stajao kao izbezumljen u stroju. Prvi, kada je dosao ovaj na klupicu, rekao je: „Zbogom, drugovi!”. Drugi zatošenik kada je dosao na red, rekao je: “Zgogom narode!”A onda mu je zastavnik Lisac dobacio: ,, A što ne kažeš – Zbogom Staljine!“ I posle …
A Lisac je bio…?
Lisac je bio zastavnik u zapovedništvu logora. On je radio tamo u kancelariji. To je bilo negde polovinom , možda u drugoj polovini oktobra meseca. Posle sam čuo da su to bili neki električari, ovaj, ne sećam im se imena. Dalje, neposredno po mom dolasku, za jedno mesec dana, svi Srbi iz tog transporta iz Zagreba su nestali. Bar iz moje grupe… Ja sam bio raspoređen u gradjevinsku grupu. Bio sam očevidac toga kada je posle večere, kada smo se vraćali na spavanje, pisar iz logorske uprave Đuro…Đuro…ne mogu se setiti imena… došao i odveo Manu Polovinu. Mano Polovina je bio seljak iz Like. Imao je gunj od nekog jagnjećeg krzna i on je hteo pobeći. Međutim, ovaj ga je uhvatio i odveo u zapovedništvo i drugog dana na prozivci Mane Polovine više nije bilo. Sada sam ja misli da je došao red po abecedi na slovo P. Medjutim dan- dva iza toga odveli su Ahmeta Kapetanovica. Ahmet Kapetanovic je bio zarobljeni partizan. Zajedno smo bili u bolnici na lečenju, u logoru. Zajedno smo došli u istoj grupi uhapšeni na policiju. I za par dana ja sam Kapetanovića video u logoru. On je bio električar i njega je spasio ustaški segrt koji je radio sa njim. Trčao je po nihovog šefa i taj šef je došao po Kapetanovića koji je bio u nekakvom skladištu, gore kod lančare, i već su se bili skinuli do gola i rekao mu je da se obuce.Kaže: “ Kapetanoviću, obuci se. I onda promeni sijalicu na jednom stubu.“ I kaže:“ Da znaš, od sad te niko neće tražiti.“ Kapetanović par dana ni sa kim nije hteo razgovarati. Kada je video mene: „Beži, beži, nikoga ne poznajem.“ Kapetanovic je zajedno sa mnom deportiran u Nemačku i vratio se živ.
U kom logoru ste bili?
Gde? U Nemačkoj?! Bili smo u okolini Linca. Kada smo došli tamo, to je bilo negde kraj februara…Bili smo mesec dana u karantinu jer je jos uvek bilo tifusara medju nama i u aprilu smo raspoređeni na rad, u stvari u okolici Linca ko kuda, ja sam…
U poljoprivredi, po fabrikama?
Ne. Da. Da. Ja sam radio u željezari Hermann Göring Eisenwerke. Tu sam radio mesec dana, do 5. maja , dok su nas oslobodili Amerikanci. I posle oslobođenja, mi smo se skupili, ti svi jasenovački logoraši iz tih raznih logora iz okoline Linca. Organizirali smo se i tu smo se organizirano vratili kuci, tako das mo u Zagreb stigli već 25. maja.
Secate li se nekih represalija pre nego sto ste otisli u partizane, u vasem rodnom kraju?
Da. Da. Da.Bilo je. Bilo je to još u aprilu 1941. godine, posle kapitulacije, negde krajem aprila, bilo je masovno streljanje u Gudovcu. I mi smo bili obavešteni, svi Srbi, to je seoski starešina išao od kuće do kuće, prvo, da se nikud ne udaljavamo od kuće. Verovatno su mislili i nas… I onda, za dva dana je došlo da moramo svi od 16 -65 ići na rad da popravimo cestu u opstini Kloštar-Ivanić; to je bila cesta Zagreb – Beograd. Nije to bila trasa ovog puta, već stara makadamska cesta. I tu smo tri dana na toj cesti radili. Hteli sun as imati na okupu. Međutim, valjda im se nešto poremetilo u tom njihovom planu, jer su neke žene, kasnije sam to čuo, išle kod nemačkog komadanta garnizona u Bjelovaru tako da je on sprečio te masovne egzekucije. Tako da nakon ta tri dana mi smo se vratili kući. A kasnije smo čuli za Gudovac.A to je bilo prvo.. prvo je bilo hapsenje u Grubišnom Polju, negde 25 ili 26, a za dva dana je bio Gudovac.
A koliko mislite da je ubijeno ljudi u Gudovcu?
A ima… Ja ima knjigu o tome… To je napisao je profesor Bjelovitic. To se krece od 196 do 200 i…ne znam. To se ne znaju tačni podaci.
Da li ste se posle rata iznenadili kada ste videli da od logora Jasenovac prakticno nema ni traga?
Da. Ovako, slusajte, ja sam u Jasenovac došao prvi put posle rata 1963. Godine, saženom i sinom. To je bilo za 4. juli. To je sve bilo zaraslo u travu. Bile su samo humke i znam da su još seljaci kosili, pravili su trag do tih objekata , sta ja znam, do ciglane, do lancare… Prvi put sam tada video da su masovno došle žene iz Potkozarja, iz Slavonije,,koje su tu došle da zapale sveću, da oplakuju svoje… Bio sam strašno razočaran kada sam to video. Jedan jedini objekat je ostao još čitav, to je bila neka alatnica. To su bile tamo…alat se tamo držao, sta ja znam , lopate, pijuci…i to je još stajalo. Posle ni toga nije bilo.
Recite mi, molim Vas, s obzirom na vase godine, da li primećujete da se menja odnos prema istoriji ovog mesta?
Pa, menja se, menja se. Čujte, ja mislim ono posle rata, samo uređenje ovog mesta, ja sam rekao to i mojoj predsednici da se ja ne slazem sa ovim. Dan uoči te komemoracije dolazili su tu literati, pisci, omladina, tu su čitali svoja dela, vozili se Savom, pevali, a na drugi dan će doći majke da plaču. Kažem, ja se s tim ne slažem, a čiji je to bio scenario – ne znam, ali je bilo neprimerno za jedno takvo strašno mesto.
English rendition of the interview, paraphrased and abridged:
I am Bogdan Petkovic, former Jasenovac inmate. I entered the logor [concentration camp] as a partisan prisoner of war. I arrived on October 5th of 1944, and left Jasenovac on February 18, 1945, deported to forced labor in Germany. I spent 135 days in Jasenovac -135 days!
-How old were you then?
I was 21…before I came to Jasenovac, I had some idea about it, but I could not believe [the stories]… When I was captured, I presented myself as Croat and Catholic, even though I was a Serb Orthodox Christian. I can say that I saved my life that way. I entered Jasenovac wearing a German uniform, Italian military boots, and Yugoslav army overcoat. The Ustashas thought me to be a Domobran (NDH Croat Army troops) since, at that time, there were also some Domobrans in the camp. It was good for me to be thought to be a Domobran. I was beaten up twice because of my uniform. Then, one inmate, Janko Pal, who unfortunately did not survive Jasenovac, warned me that I would be beaten up all the time because of my German uniform. So he went to the Krpara and changed my German shirt for a peasant’s woolen jacket.
-What was this Krpara?
It was the warehouse where they kept all the clothing belonging to inmates who had already been killed… It was a warehouse, and from there clothing was transported to Oroslavlje, as I learned later. In Oroslavlje, there was a textile factory in operation.
-Have you witnessed the sufferings of other people?
I have. I witnessed suffering. Immediately upon my arrival in logor, a public nastup was ordered
-What was a nastup?
When the Ustashas lined-up all the inmates of camp in order to execute some of them, it was called nastup. They lined us up in front of barracks. There were gallows there. They hanged 3 inmates. Sergeant-major Lisac read the verdict… I stood in line, angry. The first man reached the bench under the gallows saying, „Farewell, comrades!“ The second inmate said, „Farewell, people.“ Then Sergeant-major Lisac called out, „Why don’t you say: Goodbye, Stalin?“
…About a month after…all the Serbs brought in from Zagreb disappeared, at least from my group, and I was in a construction group. I witnessed when the clerk, Djuro, came to take Mane Polovina after dinner while the inmates were going to sleep. Mane Polovina was a peasant from Lika wearing a lamb skin jerkin. Mane had attempted escape from the camp, but the Ustashas caught him…the next day at roll- call, Mane Polovina was not there any more.
…a day or two after that, they took Ahmet Kapetanovic. He was also a captured partisan, we were together in camp infirmary, we were captured in the same group… After a few days I saw Ahmet again in the camp. He was an electrician, and some Ustasha apprentice that worked with him, saved his life…he was already undressed, when the crew boss ordered him to dress himself and to go to change the bulb on a light pole… After that, Kapetanovic would not to talk to anyone. When he saw me once, he said, „Run, get away from me. I do not know anyone any more.“ Kapetanovic and I were deported to Germany together, and he also came back alive.
-In which logor were you?
We were near Lienz. When we arrived there, it was late February. We spent a month in quarantine because of typhoid. In April we were assigned to work near Lienz.
-In agriculture or in factories?
-I worked for the steel industry Herman Goering Eisenwerk for a month, until the Americans liberated us. After Liberation, we Jasenovac inmates, gathered ourselves from all of the camps in the Lienz vicinity, organized ourselves and returned together to our homeland. We arrived in Zagreb about May 25.
-Do you remember the violence before you joined partisans?
Yes. Yes. In April 1941…all of us, all Serbs were ordered to stay at home…Two days later, all men age 16-65 were ordered to forced labor, to repair the road in Klostar-Ivanic, a part of the old Zagreb-Belgrade road. We worked for 3 days there… Some women went to see a German Commander in Bjelovar. It seems that he prevented further mass executions. After tree days we returned home, and later we heard what had happened in Gudovac. It was the first mass killing… The mass arrest in Grubisno Polje was the first of its kind. Two days later was Gudovac, the first mass killing in Croatia.
-How many people were killed in Gudovac, in your opinion?
I have a book written by Professor Bjelovitic… between 196 and 200 people, but the exact number is unknown.
-Were you surprised after the war when you saw that there was no trace left of Jasenovac logor?
In 1963 I came to Jasenovac for the first time since the war. I was with my wife and my son, it was Fighter’s Day, July 4. The whole camp was overgrown with grass. The farmers mowed the grass and created access to the remnants of the once Ustasha camp… The women from Potrkozarie and Slavonia came there to light candles, to mourn for their loved ones. I was very disappointed when I saw that only one tool-shed remained of the whole Ustasha logor .
It was there then, but later even this tool-shed was gone.
-Have you noticed any changes in the approach to the history of this place?
Yes. It is changing. Soon after the war, a day before the commemoration, the poets, writers, the youth…used to gather. They read their writings here, sailed on the river in boats, singing and playing the music…and the next day the mothers would arrive to weep.
I disagreed with that. Whose scenario it was, I do not know, but it was inappropriate for such a terrible place.